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but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious, as well. >> is this assessment of yours based on the meeting with secretary geithner or your phone call with president obama last night and you can tell us something about that knophone c? >> we had very nice conversation last night. it was direct and straightforward. but this assessment i give you today would be a product of both of those conversations. >> how much would you be open to the idea of discretionary spending cuts as part of a down payment to give to a longer range solution on entitlements and tax reform? >> there are a lot of options on the table, including that one. >> mr. speaker, before the election, you were asked whether if obama won taxes would have to go up. and you've made it sound like you would oppose that. now you're acknowledging that they will. >> the day after the election, i came here and made it clear that republicans would put revenue on the table as a way to begin to move the process to get this resolve
but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious, as well. >> is this assessment of yours based on the meeting with secretary geithner or your phone call with president obama last night and you can tell us something about that knophone c? >> we had very nice conversation last night. it was direct and straightforward. but this assessment i give you today would be a product of both of...
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but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious as well. >> and the speaker tweeted, "how serious is the white house about avoiding the fiscal cliff?" reports suggest, in some cases, not so serious. and also, joanne, what is the strategy here, and is there a risk like looking like you're not really negotiating? >> well, you know, i think what's interesting is that there's the posture that everyone is taking in public, but then what you're hearing behind the scenes is that everyone's sort of understands what the contours of the deal are going to look like. and what i see is john boehner trying to sort of protect his caucus at this point because he probably understands that at the end of the day, that top rate is going to go up. and republicans are in a really awkward position because right now essentially they're just defending the tax cut for the top 2%. at the same time, the white house's public posture is to say well, no, we don't want to go over the fiscal cliff because you don'
but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious as well. >> and the speaker tweeted, "how serious is the white house about avoiding the fiscal cliff?" reports suggest, in some cases, not so serious. and also, joanne, what is the strategy here, and is there a risk like looking like you're not really negotiating? >> well, you know, i think what's interesting is that there's...
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the president all business today in washington, sitting down for a business roundtable, about the fiscal cliff, it's all part of an effort to keep the heat on republicans to cave on tax hikes for the wealthy in order to reach a deal but congressman boehner saying the person the president needs to be talking to is him, and doing so face-to-face, so who is standing in the way of compromise? we have a line-up of guests, debbie wasserman schultz, senator ben carden of maryland and former oklahoma congressman j.c. watts who is also being touted to take up a new job, rnc chairman, plus live coverage of the president's remarks straight ahe ahead. plaque psoriasis. i decided enough is enough. ♪ [ spa lady ] i started enbrel. it's clinically proven to provide clearer skin. [ rv guy ] enbrel may not work for everyone -- and may not clear you completely, but for many, it gets skin clearer fast, within 2 months, and keeps it clearer up to 9 months. [ male announcer ] because enbrel®, etanercept, suppresses your immune system, it may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal
the president all business today in washington, sitting down for a business roundtable, about the fiscal cliff, it's all part of an effort to keep the heat on republicans to cave on tax hikes for the wealthy in order to reach a deal but congressman boehner saying the person the president needs to be talking to is him, and doing so face-to-face, so who is standing in the way of compromise? we have a line-up of guests, debbie wasserman schultz, senator ben carden of maryland and former oklahoma...
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whatever is happening this week with the fiscal cliff, it's just one little blip in a multidecade goal to reshape how america looks politically, business. they are very philosophically focused and very, very disciplined, and very, very wealthy. >> the piece is to mark his 77th birthday, so he has been at it for some time. here is another interesting passage from your article. charles' many critics owe on the left, including the president of the united states, accuse him of accumulating too much power and using it to promote his own economic interests through a network of secretive organizations they call the kochtopus. what is it and how far does it stretch? >> on the left the idea is that they are funding many if not most, certainly many, of the leading right wing think tanks. if you think about it, this is how they play the game. they're talking about long-term investments. a lot of people are focused on how much money was spent by super pacs and donors in this election cycle. what the kochs have always done is said we're going to look at this and say how can we lay the seeds? they k
whatever is happening this week with the fiscal cliff, it's just one little blip in a multidecade goal to reshape how america looks politically, business. they are very philosophically focused and very, very disciplined, and very, very wealthy. >> the piece is to mark his 77th birthday, so he has been at it for some time. here is another interesting passage from your article. charles' many critics owe on the left, including the president of the united states, accuse him of accumulating...
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obama's plan for the fiscal cliff includes 400 billion or so in unspecified cuts, while the republicans have offered 800 billion in unspecified higher tax revenues. has either side gotten specific enough for you guys? >> they haven't gotten specific enough yet, but they both staked out positions that are imminently compromisable. there's good common ground there. what's preventing that? the republicans saying we'll never raise taxes. the problem is taxes are scheduled to go up. they can't say no to that. they will go up. the only real question for the obstructionists in the republican party is, seriously, you're going to block atax cut? that's what it is. >> i want to play some sound from our friend david gergen on cnn yesterday and get you to comment. >> since this election i think the democrats are the ones who are really trying to rub it in and almost humiliate the republicans, and that's not going to get to a bargain. i think it has to be win-win. you hear among some democrats right now and it's disturbing that maybe just ought to take it over the cliff. we'll score political points
obama's plan for the fiscal cliff includes 400 billion or so in unspecified cuts, while the republicans have offered 800 billion in unspecified higher tax revenues. has either side gotten specific enough for you guys? >> they haven't gotten specific enough yet, but they both staked out positions that are imminently compromisable. there's good common ground there. what's preventing that? the republicans saying we'll never raise taxes. the problem is taxes are scheduled to go up. they can't...
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. >> the president had a busy fiscal cliff day, also met privately with the ceo ofs of home depot, coca-cola and yahoo!. not to be out done on this pr front, house republicans made it public, hosting a group of nervous business leaders. they've signed on to a campaign called fix the debt. they want big spending cuts to supplement the coming tax hikes. >> i'm hopeful but i wouldn't put me anywhere near the optimistic category. we have a long way to go and a few days to get it done. >> don't forget that's erskine bowels. republicans are trying to put pressure on democrats even as democrats enjoy the moment on taxes. here is where republicans are on entitlements. >> there's been no serious discussion by the white house on entitlements, on medicare and medicaid. this has to be a part of this agreement or else we just continue to dig the hole deep i. >> republicans are very frustrated that what's taking up oxygen right now is the issue of taxes. in fact, yesterday that's what happened. the first major public break inside the republican controlled house, oklahoma congressman tom cole who endorsed
. >> the president had a busy fiscal cliff day, also met privately with the ceo ofs of home depot, coca-cola and yahoo!. not to be out done on this pr front, house republicans made it public, hosting a group of nervous business leaders. they've signed on to a campaign called fix the debt. they want big spending cuts to supplement the coming tax hikes. >> i'm hopeful but i wouldn't put me anywhere near the optimistic category. we have a long way to go and a few days to get it done....
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like you said, there are places that business can succeed. is it government-infused money to get there, or is it going to be actual, real, american dollars in there? >> susan, that's really the opportunity. first of all, i don't think inflation is a concern for years. in order for inflation to be a concern it it has to get into the wage cycle. we're far from that. the needs are clear. ports, roads, transport rail and plus protection against extreme weather. on the other side demand. the demand for infrastructure investments isle coming from the private sector. this is very new and it's driven by the fact as rates come down the opportunities for investors, pension funds and sovereign wealth funds to find opportunities to give them the yield they want, 5 to 6% are disappearing. infrastructure offers that opportunity. it's a long-term opportunity. it matches their liabilities, what they need to protect to pay off their retirees very nicely. so i think there's actually a sweet spot between the need for infrastructure and the ability of not only t
like you said, there are places that business can succeed. is it government-infused money to get there, or is it going to be actual, real, american dollars in there? >> susan, that's really the opportunity. first of all, i don't think inflation is a concern for years. in order for inflation to be a concern it it has to get into the wage cycle. we're far from that. the needs are clear. ports, roads, transport rail and plus protection against extreme weather. on the other side demand. the...
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. >> there are now 29 days until the country reaches the so-called fiscal cliff. and only 19 of those are business days. as yet there's been no counteroffer from the gop but today "the wall street journal" advises republicans to say the course writing given the political difficulty of reforming entitlements republicans are right to try get mr. obama's fingerprints on a deal this year. if mr. obama won't agree to these demin muss reforms republicans should let mr. obama own the debt crisis he has done so much to create. conservative commentator bill crystal says they're making a dangerous gamble. >> republicans are at risk in my view now of looking like they're defending, keeping the current tax rates for the wealthy. end of the day president obama is selling a simple message, i want to keep taxes low for middle-class americans and republicans look like -- i'm worried are in the position offiof ing -- looking as fe the don't care about middle class. >> joining us is the sage of capitol hill, boat shoe enthusiast and celebrity doppelganger, nbc's luke russert. >> go
. >> there are now 29 days until the country reaches the so-called fiscal cliff. and only 19 of those are business days. as yet there's been no counteroffer from the gop but today "the wall street journal" advises republicans to say the course writing given the political difficulty of reforming entitlements republicans are right to try get mr. obama's fingerprints on a deal this year. if mr. obama won't agree to these demin muss reforms republicans should let mr. obama own the...
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cliff. but his actions have not matched his public statements. members of his own party seem quite comfortable with sending the economy over the fiscal cliff. >> the speaker's remarks riled the left and provoked this response from senate majority leader harry reid. >> he says that democrats have got to get serious about cuts, spending cuts. where is the disconnect, then? >> i don't understand his brain, so you should ask him. okay? >> with only a handful of legislative days left on the congress's calendar before the looming fiscal cliff becomes a raw reality, will the president and house gop find a way over the latest road black and back to the bargaining table? >> why did the white house decide to have this as their opening volley when they knew the response would be a negative one that they drew? >> was it hardball opening? yeah, of course it was. the question is, what's the counteroffer? >> i would imagine there has to -- tim geithner is too smart of a guy in this administration is filled
cliff. but his actions have not matched his public statements. members of his own party seem quite comfortable with sending the economy over the fiscal cliff. >> the speaker's remarks riled the left and provoked this response from senate majority leader harry reid. >> he says that democrats have got to get serious about cuts, spending cuts. where is the disconnect, then? >> i don't understand his brain, so you should ask him. okay? >> with only a handful of legislative...
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up next, how the fiscal cliff debate affects your wallet, your business or your favorite toys for that matter. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. ♪ (announcer) when subaru owners look in the mirror, they see more than themselves. so we celebrate our year-end with the "share the love" event. get a great deal on a new subaru and 250 dollars goes to your choice of five charities. by the end of this, our fifth year, our total can reach almost 25 million dollars. it's a nice reflection on us all. now through january 2nd. is bigger than we think ... sometimelike the flu.fer from with aches, fever and chills- the flu's a really big deal. so why treat it like it's a little cold? there's something that works differently than over-the-counter remedies. prescription tamiflu attacks the flu virus at its source. so don't wait. call your doctor right away. tamiflu is prescription medicine for treating the flu in adults and children one year and older whose flu symptoms started within the last two days. before taking tamiflu tell your doctor if you're pregnant, nursing. have serious hea
up next, how the fiscal cliff debate affects your wallet, your business or your favorite toys for that matter. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. ♪ (announcer) when subaru owners look in the mirror, they see more than themselves. so we celebrate our year-end with the "share the love" event. get a great deal on a new subaru and 250 dollars goes to your choice of five charities. by the end of this, our fifth year, our total can reach almost 25 million dollars. it's a nice...
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. >> now the question is, what goes on with the fiscal cliff? could the number get any better? >> i think that is the hope on wall street and republicans that have been talk ug for years and of the business community and to start spending down their profits and there might be a better sort of ofavalanche, if u will. the question is, what does that deal have to look like to unleash those hopes? it probably has to be something permanent and not a punt. >> the republicans talked about two things, though. one, as you say, is about certainty and they say that businesses need that certainty to start hiring but they've also warned that if tax rates go up on the wealthy that would have have a negative impact. >> i think republican orthodoxy is bad. if you raise taxes on the wealthy, absolutely, it's going to drag on growth a bit. but the hope is among the analysts is that the positive impact of getting certainty and beyond just certainty, seeing that washington can avoid a debt limit fight, that might help boost confidence that would be very conducive to job creation. >> you bring up a
. >> now the question is, what goes on with the fiscal cliff? could the number get any better? >> i think that is the hope on wall street and republicans that have been talk ug for years and of the business community and to start spending down their profits and there might be a better sort of ofavalanche, if u will. the question is, what does that deal have to look like to unleash those hopes? it probably has to be something permanent and not a punt. >> the republicans talked...
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but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious as well. >> we can debate at length whether the november 6th election was a mandate, but i don't think we can debate the basics that it was a work order, a work order from the american people to members of congress and to the president, roll up your sleeves, work together and solve the problems. we got the message. did speaker boehner get the message? because the message was work together. what we hear from him is all of his pain and frustration and angst dealing with the tea party in his own caucus. well, there comes a point when he needs to look beyond his caucus to the house and to the nation. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." >> i guess the more things change, the more they stay the same. it's depressing, you're right, harold, we've seen this movie before. this was a year ago. this happened a year ago. and i know the media says oh, it's the republicans' fault any time the house doesn't completely fold into what the pres
but going over the fiscal cliff is serious business. and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it. and i would hope the white house would get serious as well. >> we can debate at length whether the november 6th election was a mandate, but i don't think we can debate the basics that it was a work order, a work order from the american people to members of congress and to the president, roll up your sleeves, work together and solve the problems. we got the message. did speaker boehner get the...
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two days after the republican fiscal cliff counter offer, both sides are coming out swings. speaker john boehner defended his proposal this morning, adopting a page from the dem's fairness playbook. >> the revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from, guess who? the rich. closing loopholes, especially on those who are wealthy, is a better way to raise this revenue than raising
two days after the republican fiscal cliff counter offer, both sides are coming out swings. speaker john boehner defended his proposal this morning, adopting a page from the dem's fairness playbook. >> the revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from, guess who? the rich. closing loopholes, especially on those who are wealthy, is a better way to raise this revenue than raising
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congress hearing from all sides on the fiscal cliff and heading up a coalition of business and economic leaders in the fix the debt campaign, where do you sense the players are right now in terms of whether they'll go interest a small deal, band-aid approach or grand bargain. >> the good news is while it's a nail biter, that's for sure, we all wish we could solve some of these problems without going to the brink like we do in politics, i think they're going to get this resolved and be able to put in place a plan not just to avert the fiscal cliff, but importantly to really tackle the deficit and debt problems in this country. i am concerned that deal won't be big enough. is it going to be small or medium or big. we need a plan big enough to fix the deficit problems and make sure the debt is no longer growing faster than the economy. we're not going to be able to balance the budget in the near future because the fiscal hole is so big. you want to make sure the debt is not growing faster than the economy. that's going to take $4 trillion in savings. you need all parts on the table and con
congress hearing from all sides on the fiscal cliff and heading up a coalition of business and economic leaders in the fix the debt campaign, where do you sense the players are right now in terms of whether they'll go interest a small deal, band-aid approach or grand bargain. >> the good news is while it's a nail biter, that's for sure, we all wish we could solve some of these problems without going to the brink like we do in politics, i think they're going to get this resolved and be...
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owners today to talk about the fiscal cliff, raising tax rates on the richest americans for them is still off the table. >> the revenues on the table are coming from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes, and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. if the president doesn't agree with our proposal and our outline, i think he's got an obligation to send one to the congress. a plan that can pass both chambers of congress. >> joining me now is former vermont governor howard dean and msnbc's krystal ball. governor dean, our treasury secretary is a very carwful speaker. when asked if they're prepared to go off the cliff, his first word was absolutely. there was nothing, nothing could be more clear that this administration means what they say about getting what they want at this point. >> yeah. the only problem is -- this is a little initially going to team like heresy, the truth is everybody needs to pay more taxes, not just the rich. that's a good start. w
owners today to talk about the fiscal cliff, raising tax rates on the richest americans for them is still off the table. >> the revenues on the table are coming from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes, and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. if the president doesn't agree with our proposal and our outline, i think he's got an obligation to send one...
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they can be a valuable ally in the fiscal cliff push because they're an important component of the republican party. if business leaders come out and recognizing, we've been through the experience of the debt crisis in 2011, business leaders who care about this, have a lot of money on the line, recognize house republicans are willing to go nuts and wreck the economy if you enlist them, you've put additional pressure on republicans to come to the table and agree to a deal that's more along the lines of what democrats and president obama would like to happen. i think there's -- there's something in it for president obama. >> maybe form a daisy chain with the ceo of caterpillar and pepsico and walk around. >> not touching that one. >> interesting optical political kabuki theater. as moderate republicans join the critical corous over susan rice, we'll look at rice resume on "now." so anyway, i've been to a lot of places. you know, i've helped alot of people save a lot of money. but today...( sfx: loud noise of metal object hitting the ground) things have been a little strange. (sfx: sound of pian
they can be a valuable ally in the fiscal cliff push because they're an important component of the republican party. if business leaders come out and recognizing, we've been through the experience of the debt crisis in 2011, business leaders who care about this, have a lot of money on the line, recognize house republicans are willing to go nuts and wreck the economy if you enlist them, you've put additional pressure on republicans to come to the table and agree to a deal that's more along the...
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. >> businesses of much more focused on washington, on the whole policy issues around the fiscal cliff because they are trying to figure out their spending plans guessing what taxes will be. businesses are focused on if they spend x and taxed at y what's that going to leave them in terms of profitability. degree of which businesses have come off a really good four years where the rest of us have come off a more problematic four years. finally in this quarter partly because of the fiscal cliff, partly because of europe, partly because of slow down in china profits are more challenging for companies. but they are still making a lot of money. >> "wall street journal" study of 40 major companies half plan drastic cuts to their investments and spending into next. once a budget deal is reached, i mean whatever it is, do you think we'll see companies loosen their wallet? is there a bigger chance they will slow down more? >> part of this is contingent how well consumers do. companies will spend money if there's this active healthy consumer base that justifies them spending money for more activ
. >> businesses of much more focused on washington, on the whole policy issues around the fiscal cliff because they are trying to figure out their spending plans guessing what taxes will be. businesses are focused on if they spend x and taxed at y what's that going to leave them in terms of profitability. degree of which businesses have come off a really good four years where the rest of us have come off a more problematic four years. finally in this quarter partly because of the fiscal...
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congressman, steve israel, on the democratic momentum on the fiscal cliff. plus. >> karen finney on the new bizarre attack on ambassador, susan rice. >> all of the sudden, we are the bell of the ball. we are here to say, it's time to start to dance. >>> latino voters help put president obama over the top. now, the hispanic caucus says they want action. representative luis gutierrez joins me tonight. >>> good to have you with us. thanks for watching. president obama is selling his economic agenda and using all the right tools. the president was surrounded today by middle class taxpayers at the white house as he pushed for an extension of the tax cuts for income below $250,000. he quas quick to highlight the break in the ranks with the republicans. >> i am glad to see, if you've been reading the papers lately, that more and more republicans in congress, seem to be agreeing with this idea that we should have a balanced approach. so if both parties agree we should not raise taxes on middle class families, let's begin our work with where we agree. >> president ob
congressman, steve israel, on the democratic momentum on the fiscal cliff. plus. >> karen finney on the new bizarre attack on ambassador, susan rice. >> all of the sudden, we are the bell of the ball. we are here to say, it's time to start to dance. >>> latino voters help put president obama over the top. now, the hispanic caucus says they want action. representative luis gutierrez joins me tonight. >>> good to have you with us. thanks for watching. president obama...
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when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was speaker boehner's downbeat assessment of fiscal negotiations. he went on putting blame squarely on the president. let's listen. >> this president has adopted of a deliberate strategy to slow walk our economy right to the edge of the fiscal cliff. it's time for the president, if he's serious, to come back to us with a counteroffer. >> shortly after house ni mort leader nancy pelosi put the plame back on republicans. let's listen. >> the only obstacle standing in the way of middle income tax relief are the republicans unwillingness to ask the top 2% to pay their fair share. this is a moment of truth. the clock is ticking. christmas is coming, the goose is getting fat, but in many homes across america it's very -- a very, very lean time. >> and today's jobs report showing 146,000 jobs added in november and unemployment dipping to 7.7% may give the president some leverage in negotiations with boehner. but while the president
when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was speaker boehner's downbeat assessment of fiscal negotiations. he went on putting blame squarely on the president. let's listen. >> this president has adopted of a deliberate strategy to slow walk our economy right to the edge of the fiscal cliff. it's time for the president, if he's serious, to come back to...
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yes, you have the business wing, the wall street wing, that wants a deal for the fiscal cliff because they're looking at their pocketbooks. you still have this hard ride evangelical wings and that tea party wings. those two things still have a lot of sway, and they still want the kind of candidates that are like herman cain. they still think people like even john boehner are too moderate. even though boehner is putting forward essentially the mitt romney economic plan as his supposed compromise with the president. that's not far right enough for a big chunk of the republican base. >> maria, let me play for you something one of the outcast congressmen tossed by speaker boehner said today. listen to this. >> it's not about principles. it's about blind obedience. dissent will not be tolerated, particularly conservative dissent. >> he was upset throughout that forum today. is conservative blogger eric ericsson, he writes this. conservatives must seek retribution or become the paper tiger. maria, what will the retribution look like? >> i think we're all a little scared of that. >> i am. >>
yes, you have the business wing, the wall street wing, that wants a deal for the fiscal cliff because they're looking at their pocketbooks. you still have this hard ride evangelical wings and that tea party wings. those two things still have a lot of sway, and they still want the kind of candidates that are like herman cain. they still think people like even john boehner are too moderate. even though boehner is putting forward essentially the mitt romney economic plan as his supposed compromise...
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that's the whole issue here. >> on the fiscal cliff front, no new deals or concessions made public, but "the new york times" reports the dynamic has changed. at the request of speaker boehner, senate leaders and nancy pelosi have been dismissed from the negotiating table. leaving just the speaker and the president to hammer this one out. today vice president biden is hosting middle-class families at the white house, continuing to pressure congress to strike a deal on tax rates below 250,000. yesterday, the president struck a hopeful note with a middle-income family in virginia, while maintaining a hardline on negotiations. >> the message that i think we all want to send to members of congress is, this is a sovble problem. i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for rate at the top 2% but i remain optimistic we can get something done for that is good for families like this one and that is good for the american economy. >> but the clock is ticking. with just two full weeks before christmas to go. joining me now from washington, the man with all t
that's the whole issue here. >> on the fiscal cliff front, no new deals or concessions made public, but "the new york times" reports the dynamic has changed. at the request of speaker boehner, senate leaders and nancy pelosi have been dismissed from the negotiating table. leaving just the speaker and the president to hammer this one out. today vice president biden is hosting middle-class families at the white house, continuing to pressure congress to strike a deal on tax rates...
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i mean, unlike greece, whose fiscal profglasy has them where they are today. >> except that if we go over the cliff and given how tenuous this economic environment is right now, i mean, the message that sends to business leaders, employers, let alone the american people, is this place is not only ungovernable, it is dysfunction beyond dysfunction. >> a friend of mine, a wealthy california guy, a liberal, said, if you think they're going to trust you after you miss the january 1st deadline, they'll be no trust. they'll say, if you can't meet your own deadline, why would you meet anybody else's. >> and the markets, whether it's europe or american, are pricing in a solution. you see it really quite clearly. >> somebody was on -- mcmahon yesterday was wrong, they're not pricing a failure, they're pricing in a solution. thank you, chris kofinis, for that report from greece. jared bernstein, as always, thank you. >>> when we return, let me finish with the ghost of fiscal cliff yet to come. wait until you see this story. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. [ woman ] ring. ri
i mean, unlike greece, whose fiscal profglasy has them where they are today. >> except that if we go over the cliff and given how tenuous this economic environment is right now, i mean, the message that sends to business leaders, employers, let alone the american people, is this place is not only ungovernable, it is dysfunction beyond dysfunction. >> a friend of mine, a wealthy california guy, a liberal, said, if you think they're going to trust you after you miss the january 1st...
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. >>> democrats said they think it's a good idea to drive the economy off the fiscal cliff this january. you might call this thelma and louise economics. right off the cliff. ♪ >> joining me now, senator feldma. >> great to talk to you. >> senator, you've been the leader on how the democrats should be approaching the so-called off the cliff drama and i just want to play something you said on july 16th at the brookings institute. let's listen to that. >> we can't get a good deal, a balanced deal that calls on the wealthy to pay their fair share, when i will absolutely continue this debate into 2013. >> after that, senator mcconnell called that thelma and louise economics. tell us why this cliff is not as disastrous a cliff to go off? >> first of all, no one wants to go off any cliff or hill or slope. there is a responsible way to revolve this. but if we take a bad deal and say that all of the nation's fiscal problems are to be balanced on the back of middle class families and the wealthy don't participate, that's a bad deal we cannot and should not live within this country. >> shortly
. >>> democrats said they think it's a good idea to drive the economy off the fiscal cliff this january. you might call this thelma and louise economics. right off the cliff. ♪ >> joining me now, senator feldma. >> great to talk to you. >> senator, you've been the leader on how the democrats should be approaching the so-called off the cliff drama and i just want to play something you said on july 16th at the brookings institute. let's listen to that. >> we...
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cliff? >> there's a lot of news reports on consumers holding back, but it's not clear it to me that that's more than finding a story and finding your anecdote. >> are you accusing the media of -- >> i'm making an observation and i'm going to by the ipad but i'm worried about the fiscal cliff so i'm buying the mini. that's about the extent of consumer concern. consumers are worried about jobs and general economic conditions insofar as washington is perceived as a impediment to that, which is clearly is perceived as, then people are concerned. i don't think you have nearly a one-to-one connection. the consumer sentiment is a pretty weird gauge which they ask how you feel, and that went down today. if you have constant 24/7 coverage about going off a fiscal cliff, you have to expect people to be concerned. >> my understanding with regards to consumer sentiment is that it varies widely depending on how much money you make. >> it varies based on the news cycle. there's two things. the constant is
cliff? >> there's a lot of news reports on consumers holding back, but it's not clear it to me that that's more than finding a story and finding your anecdote. >> are you accusing the media of -- >> i'm making an observation and i'm going to by the ipad but i'm worried about the fiscal cliff so i'm buying the mini. that's about the extent of consumer concern. consumers are worried about jobs and general economic conditions insofar as washington is perceived as a impediment to...
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now, i'm not going to blame it all on the fiscal cliff. we have a slowing economy. we have slowing economies around the world. but i was at a dinner with a bunch of ceos in washington who are interested and care about this fiscal issue on monday night. and they were talking about we're not hiring. we're allowing attrition to happen. we're holding back on big spending. we want to see what happens here before we go forward. what's interesting about this is that the consumer seems to have a different view. the consumer -- for the consumer so far, this has sort of passed by. i wouldn't say blissful ignorance, but it has not affected their behavior. you had a fairly strong set of economic numbers this fall. the housing market seems to have finally turned up after a period of obviously deep decline. and so consumer confidence, which is one of our best proxies for this kind of thing, has been turning up and really does not yet -- the fiscal cliff does not yet seem to have penetrated their consciousness. for those of us who were in stores over the holiday weekend, stores ar
now, i'm not going to blame it all on the fiscal cliff. we have a slowing economy. we have slowing economies around the world. but i was at a dinner with a bunch of ceos in washington who are interested and care about this fiscal issue on monday night. and they were talking about we're not hiring. we're allowing attrition to happen. we're holding back on big spending. we want to see what happens here before we go forward. what's interesting about this is that the consumer seems to have a...
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is it going to be easier to get bipartisan view on immigration or on the fiscal cliff? they're both very important in terms of getting business moving. >> i think there's more after consensus on immigration than on the fiscal cliff. >> let's talk about taxing overseas profits only where they are earned. explain that. >> well, that's really something where the united states is an outlier and the argument here is bring them back where they're earned. at the moment the problem is american companies have lots of money sitting overseas because they don't want to bring it back and be taxed in the united states. so that is something that puts as one of his eight points because it is holding back investments by american companies. >> all right. the new issue of "the economist" is "the world in 2013." daniel franklin. thank you so much for being on the show this morning. stay with us. much more on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ mom? dad? guys? [ engine turns over ] [ engine revs ] ♪ he'll be fine. [ male announcer ] more people are leaving bmw, mercedes and lexus for audi than ever be
is it going to be easier to get bipartisan view on immigration or on the fiscal cliff? they're both very important in terms of getting business moving. >> i think there's more after consensus on immigration than on the fiscal cliff. >> let's talk about taxing overseas profits only where they are earned. explain that. >> well, that's really something where the united states is an outlier and the argument here is bring them back where they're earned. at the moment the problem is...
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there is new intrigue in the fight over the fiscal cliff talks today. both sides have messages out this morning that seem to echo the same old position. this on the heels of president obama holding a campaign-style event in suburban philadelphia to sell his solution. he said if congress does not extend the bush tax cuts for the middle class, everyone's taxes will go up january 1st. >> i'm assuming that doesn't sound too good to you. that's sort of like the lump of coal you get for christmas. that's a scrooge christmas. >> meanwhile house speaker john boehner says the latest proposal from the white house would cripple the economy. the plan calls for a boost in revenue by $1.6 trillion over the next decade. >> they want to have this extra spending that's actually greater than the amount they're willing to cut. i mean it's, it's -- not a serious proposal. so right now we're almost nowhere. >> >> mike viqueira joins us live from the white house. where is almost nowhere? >> it's inside the beltway and it's business as usual. it's also december 1st, alex, and
there is new intrigue in the fight over the fiscal cliff talks today. both sides have messages out this morning that seem to echo the same old position. this on the heels of president obama holding a campaign-style event in suburban philadelphia to sell his solution. he said if congress does not extend the bush tax cuts for the middle class, everyone's taxes will go up january 1st. >> i'm assuming that doesn't sound too good to you. that's sort of like the lump of coal you get for...
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business. i think they can just sit there and he can say, so, governor romney, what are your thoughts on the fiscal cliff. >> it doesn't matter. they're going to sit there for, what, 90 minutes, 30 minutes, 15? >> 90 minutes is excruciating. >> 90 minutes with mitt romney regardless of the person who's there would be pretty awkward. >> i think it's a good thing. i don't care what you all think anymore. >> he's over us. >> i do care about the 47 million people -- or 47% who voted for romney. i do care about you guys, right? that's cool. >>> up next, what women stand to lose in the fiscal fiasco. now president terry o'neill is in the guest spot. [ male announcer ] when a major hospital wanted to provide better employee benefits while balancing the company's bottom line, their very first word was... [ to the tune of "lullaby and good night" ] ♪ af-lac ♪ aflac [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. [ yawning sound ] try this... bayer? this
business. i think they can just sit there and he can say, so, governor romney, what are your thoughts on the fiscal cliff. >> it doesn't matter. they're going to sit there for, what, 90 minutes, 30 minutes, 15? >> 90 minutes is excruciating. >> 90 minutes with mitt romney regardless of the person who's there would be pretty awkward. >> i think it's a good thing. i don't care what you all think anymore. >> he's over us. >> i do care about the 47 million people...
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cliff, rather, and if they don't, it could harm consumer can ha confidence and in turn businesses like this one in pennsylvania. but, chris, also expect republicans to sort of lob a counterpunch today. i expect them to sort of highlight a business nearby that could be harmed if taxes do go up on those making $250,000 or more because, of course, that is for some small businesses their budget level. chris? >> and one thing, a quick follow-up, did the white house -- do you have any indication did the white house expect the reaction they got on capitol hill yesterday? i assume with this proposal, which much of it isn't new. this is essentially the president's budget proposal from last year, that they didn't think john boehner was going to say, that sounds good, let's do that. but did they expect the dismissiveness and john boehner's tone in his press conference yesterday? did that catch them by surprise at all? >> reporter: well, i think the white house democrats were a little surprised by the backlash but, as you point out, this budget proposal is essentially what the president proposed l
cliff, rather, and if they don't, it could harm consumer can ha confidence and in turn businesses like this one in pennsylvania. but, chris, also expect republicans to sort of lob a counterpunch today. i expect them to sort of highlight a business nearby that could be harmed if taxes do go up on those making $250,000 or more because, of course, that is for some small businesses their budget level. chris? >> and one thing, a quick follow-up, did the white house -- do you have any...
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the progress or lack of progress on the fiscal cliff talks and also wondering who is going to be the next treasury secretary. joining me steve rattner, wall street finance year, former head of president obama's auto task force. thanks for joining us, steve. first of all, what about the scenario that oh let's just let them go over the cliff and won't matter and the markets will view it as a nonevent. what do you think some. >> certainly going to matter. there's no question it's going to matter. it's going to matter to the markets. we don't know how much. this is an unprecedented situation, at least in my lifetime. we've had crises and debt ceilings and all that, but going over a cliff like this is a new one. the markets would be volatile, extremely -- a lot of downward pressure on them. and then the question would be how do businesses and consumers behave and quickly do they pull back? everyone knows the immediate impact from the government coming back and spending wouldn't be that great. the question then is how do businesses and consumers react? i don't think it will be a pretty sig
the progress or lack of progress on the fiscal cliff talks and also wondering who is going to be the next treasury secretary. joining me steve rattner, wall street finance year, former head of president obama's auto task force. thanks for joining us, steve. first of all, what about the scenario that oh let's just let them go over the cliff and won't matter and the markets will view it as a nonevent. what do you think some. >> certainly going to matter. there's no question it's going to...